LED Light Bulbs
 

I purchased 2 LED headlamps first and 2 crank LED flashlights. We loved them. I got mine from Cabelas and LLBean seeking quality. Then I got a solar battery charger and rechargeable batteries for the headlamps.

The headlamps are SO handy! The light goes where you are looking and both hands are free.

Next I decided to convert, gradually, the home lighting we use most to LED bulbs. They are not cheap... close to a buck a watt of light output. But they last a long time and 25 watts of light uses 4 watts of power and 60 watts uses 10 watts of power. And they do not flicker in the nauseating way fluorescents do.

Because the dollar is going to tank I think power, on or off grid, will go up for Americans. So I am intending to get our power useage way down and over time be able to power the bare necessities - fridge, freezer, 1 small room climate control, slow cookers for grain, pumps and fans, computer, from the sun. Even when I do all that I will stay on the grid for other uses. I will just have what I must have if the grid is down or prohibitively expensive. And probably keep my bill from going up.

This site is the only one I found (though there are probably many others) with 60 watt bulbs that fit the sockets of your existing incandescent lights.

When inflation effectively cuts our pay in half this could be a real help.

http://www.ledlight.com/detail.aspx?ID=26

So far I have 25 watters over the washer, drier and staples storage from my first test. 10-1 I will get my first 4 60 watters for bathroom, over the sink, and 2 living room lamps.

I will be getting a 24 hour solar power system later as the system I want that stores the power as compressed air rather than in batteries is not in production yet. The factory is under construction. Though I may buy the solar collectors once the bulbs are all bought. We could cook during daylight hours in the slow cookers and use a couple of batteries in the interim if we wanted to. Or just use our headlamps for light, and use the computer in daylight hours, or battery power it. If unopened after sundown and rechilled each day the fridge and freezer would likely be ok since we keep them full.

I'm not going to mess with connecting my solar system to the grid wiring. That gets you embroiled with the by the month monsters, and they interfere or prevent you from acting. I am putting in solar system wiring separate entirely.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

I've seen many posts on LED's as I'm interested in aquaponics. They are the light of the future. Most people seem to prefer them to fluorescents, a common complaint is headaches.

I'm very nearsighted and prefer fluorescents to incandescent lights. I've always wondered if being nearsighted had somethign to do with this preference. The only downside of LED's is the high initial cost of the bulbs. Maybe more widespread manufacturing will bring down the cost.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Hello AMforPM,
I have read many of your postings of late.
I too, am not "out in the wilderness" as such and am trying
to establish an acceptable environment on my own lot.
The above in red is my current method.
I am currently working on the LED path now,
and wiring for a D/C parallel system.
Good to see your posts.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

AMPM, how about electrolysis to store hydrogen and oxygen? A compressed air leak would be a lot less dangerous, but if the proper safety measures are taken into consideration, hydrogen and oxygen tanks wouldn't be a very risky method of storing the energy. As an added bonus, when hydrogen and oxygen are recombined they produce not only electricity, but also heat and water. Just something to keep in mind. The ratio of energy used to energy stored might not be too good though.

http://hytechapps.com/company/contact has an interesting device that doesn't appear to follow physics, I've read a little bit about similar technology, it probably uses zero point energy somehow... either way, they're going to make models that you can fuel your car with using water, supposedly a device like this can achieve 1:1 or better (yes I know, thermodynamics blah blah). Maybe in a few years someone will produce a very inexpensive device for separating mollecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen and back again to power household devices.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Since your goal is to go to solar power and battery storage, why don't you make plans to add some DC outlets and wiring to your house? If you're going to use LEDs it'll be cheaper to have ones that dont have to convert the AC down, and you won't have the inefficiencies that come with using an inverter.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Just curious as to your wording on price, you said a buck a watt of light output, wattage is a measure of power consumption, not light, lumens are a measure of light, wattage produces lumens of light, the normal 15 watt flourscent is equal to the 60/65 watt incadescent.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

I don't want to go to battery storage. The only storage system I like for my particular application is the compressed air one. Batteries are a continuing rather large expense, but the air tanks tend to be very long lasting. I might use a couple of batteries short term, or I might just buy solar generation till I can order the storage system and not use power at night.

They are building cars powered that way for Europe and Asia and also off grid power systems. The factory is under construction. The emission is very clean very cold air and since where I live heat is much more of an issue than cold, I can use the byproduct as air conditioning of the 1 room designated.

If we had no heat at all we would not really be in any danger. We rarely have a hard freeze, and I could rig enough passive solar to heat that room on our few 40 degree days out of parts I mostly already have. But it is sometimes killing hot here. 112 and humid.

Here's a link to the cars, and they also plan to sell the system to power things like boats on the Amazon.

http://www.theaircar.com/

Under 'other applications' they discuss storing solar energy. Also using water wheels on rivers and storing that.

Different systems are better for each person's application. My best friend lives half way up a big hill. About 20 pretty steep acres. I think his best system would be pumping water to a tank up top with extra power days and shooting it down to a mini water generator at night.

But with batteries you bleed replacement expense forever, IMO.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

To replace the lumens of a 60 watt incandescent you use a 10 watt LED. They mingle the terms because most shoppers are not as smart as you. :wink:

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Been a few years since I visited Backwoods Solar to buy fluoresants for my camp trailer. Checked and they have quite a lot of LEDs now. I may have to look into putting together a 12v LED solar lighting setup for the house.

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/

look under LED lights in their online catalog.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Yeah, I bought 6 crank LED torches yesterday for $7 each...they work very well.

Batteries are not as environmentally friendly as compressed air and require more servicing and may have less shelf life...but it's debatable that it's more efficient.

Problems can arise because the power factor may not be adjusted at peak load (causing loss) and they require larger space than chemical banks.

I have two medium sized compressors and could not spin a turbine for more than a few minutes before it needs to switch on...so I imagine the compressor bell needs to very large indeed...I think compressors are overkill, the same could be achieved via lighting reductions or turning a regular chest freezer into a fridge with a relay, thermistor and op-amp....total price...$20...or even converting/adapting your mains hot water with radiative/convective solar energy....

FWIW, when i purchased my crank torches I also found emergency non-stretch polymer foil blankets for $2. They're ideal for piped solar heating via an insulated clear glass/polycarbonate covered heat box!

The three most extensive uses of household electricity are...

1. Hot water system
2. Fridge/freezer
3. Household heating/cooling

I read your post about uncoventional methods that will achieve a satisfactory level of comfort and I concur, however a medium sized PWM lead acid battery charger + deep cycle batteries will be more cost effective in the long run IMHO...if'n you are happy handling conc. H2SO4, lead and a hydrometer...

I also purchased two wind turbines, and providing there is enough wind they are the best bang for buck going around...

and finally a note on LED's, it is way more expensive converting your house over to 12V and buying the composite LED globes than just putting in 8 Watt fluorescent energy saver bulbs at this point in time...might wait a few years.

Also I've 12 V halogens in and they're very power hungery (over 100 W!) and generate way too much heat for my liking...

I really like LEDS though, been messing with them and microcontrollers for years, but prices for single white LEDS have only come down marginally in the past five years...apparently some Japanese guy came up with a cheap novel way to manufacture the phosphorescent coating...wait and see I guess...

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

You are correct that the compressed air system is not as efficient as batteries. Fluorescents are out for us cause they make us nauseous and headachy and this isn't a project on how to feel bad. The flicker does not do for us.

But availability and cost of battery replacement in the future is not a rock I want to found my power house on.

Your suggestion on servicing any lead acid batteries I might get in the interim is a great one. Can they be serviced indefinitely? Like could I have 40 year batteries if I changed the acid? That would seriously change my attitude toward batteries.

Thanks for the mylar lead. A home made solar radiator system is exactly what i had in mind for heating.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

If your battries are charged with a PWM charger the frequency with which it is switched to achieve the appropriate output Voltage will actually condition the battery by desulfating the individual cells...this type charger has the capacity to keep your lead acid in peak operating condition for almost the life of the battery....if you see performance drop off you can test the electrolyte density to to find out how much the sulphate level has dropped and therefore the degree of sulphation at the plate...:smokin:

This is not all that difficult. A good PWN charger will go most of the way in keeping the battery bank conditioned, checking the solutions density (and internal resistance) periodically just ensures smooth operation....

I actually went out and bought 10 L conc. sulphuric for this purpose...price $15......last me an eternity considering it will be heavily diluted!

I understand we'll all go off in different directions at the end of the day, but I honestly could not find a cheaper/easier energy bank, believe me I tried....

The only problem I had was actually the choice to commit to regular maintance of Wet lead acids and rather than buy one-shot sealed lead acid batteries (SLA)

I use all sorts of rechargables now...NiMH, SLA, Wet lead acids. Won't touch NiCd though, hate the memory effect and although larger current densities can be achieved with NiCd, I don't need it for my portable devices....:smokin:

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

My understanding is that lights use 80 percent of the electricity in a typical household.

Small light nights are good, being only 4 watts and, though incandescent, provide plenty of light for night activities. I have 4 touch LED's that run off a couple small batteries each and put out plenty of light for emergencies. They were four separate lights for 6 bucks at the W.

Are you using the old magnetic ballasts? There is no flicker or hum with the electronic screw in type bulbs. I've got all low wattage bulbs and have always been blow the minimum charge for electricity here.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Thanks, guys, for all the great info. I just may start with 1 panel and the stuff to serve the full final number of panels, and a couple of wet lead acid batteries and keep nicking along at it month by month.

I have not tried the new fluorescents, but since we know we both love the LED bulbs, I'll go ahead with them. Our clothes washer, a Staber, is designed for off grid applications using both low water and power, and I have a demand hot water heater (natural gas convertable to propane). In a serious situation though we would use our sun showers for showers and dishes. As in utilities all off and who knows when back on. We would want to conserve water and fuel then.

But I want to dig out of anything 'by the month' I can, while I still can. Plus have some comfort security. Besides, each one of us who conserves lets the old underpowered grid serve the unprepared longer and better. We take strain off the entire system by becoming more self sufficient.

I was designing the passive solar radiator as I drifted off last night.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Residential lights aren't often on during the day...commercial/industrial lighting is...

You cannot compare 4 x 80 W incandescent bulbs that operate 33% of the time against Mains hot water (even on off-peak! say about 40%) 1500 W and a 24 hr per day 500 Watt fridge/freezer...

= (0.4 x 1500) + ( 1.0 x 500)
= 600 + 500
= 1.1 kW ! (larger than 4 x 80 W and equivalent to 1100/80 = 13 bulbs running 24 hrs per day

My House has three on at night, and they are 8 W, 3 x 8 = 24 Watts...

We are talking about domestic use, remember, not 24 hr industry....:smokin:

Domestic lighting IMO, should not be regarded as the consumer of most electricity....unless you put every light in the house on 24 hrs / day...:no_ma:

I suggest everyone breakdown the usage and cost for residential, commercial and industrial electricity supply...you will be surprised...

It seems industry + commerce uses ~2/3 of a nations energy but pays only half the price per unit compared to residents....!

These attitudes are becoming endemic...blame the end user who must consume the product to survive, not the profiteers... :confused_ma:

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Alas the wife is a leave bright lights on 24/7 type who has not really reformed in 20 plus years. Though she is trying much harder now. We do use incandescent night lights I am replacing with LEDs that give the lumens of 25 watt incandescents for the same wattage and she is thrilled. She wanted more light. And the most used lights that are now 60 watt incandescent will use much less power if she leaves them on. If I just go behind her and cut them off at bedtime that will be good enough.

But our air conditioning is still the big hog which summer vs spring and fall useage makes clear. Then the fridge and freezer and the electric toaster oven and the hair drier. Our clothes drier is gas. Getting much lower power useage high efficiency window units and ditching central really helped the a/c cost.

But I bet we save $20 a month at current electric prices just from doing better with lights. We saved about $400 a month ditching central and another $100 when better window units became available. What that will translate to in a high cost energy environment I shudder to think. So we need our own 'nothing per month' power on the biggies. The switch to solar won't be cost effective this year, but I bet by 2012 it will be. Already friends with much greater income than ours have their central air thermostats at 82, and trouble with the bill. We play freeze out and its ok because of our less wasteful system.

And besides, then we will have the freezer when the grid is down.

Our demand water heater is set up to adjust to solar preheating which I will likely add when I put in the solar radiators. We mostly hang out in the bedroom and living room and the kitchen gets a little climate control drifting in from the living room.

I'm wondering if an old steam type radiator could be internally cleaned and work well enough in our mild climate with just solar heated water. If I can find any not considered valuable antiques. I may have to build my own out of some old iron oilfield pipe I have left over from using it for fence posts. It might look a little odd, but I bet it would radiate heat fine, and use little space.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

It is not as simple as that since the power consumption of an led is not a direct indicator of the leds light performance. Due to the advancing technology of leds the newest diodes consume less power, produce less heat, and are brighter. At the moment the best leds on the market are the CREEs, particularly the Q5 version which just came out. It's ~$10 per emitter so you won't see them in these types of 120v housings too soon.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

anyone found a good site to buy LED bulbs for the house to fit as a direct install to regular bulbs?

seems like $60 per bulb for a 60 watt equivalent

http://www.universalpart.com/150-LED...item_7406.html

this one looks ok for the price
http://cgi.ebay.com/A-Par-30-7-Watt-...d=p3911.c0.m14

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

J-Son, you might to check http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/index.php?. I stumbled upon this site yesterday and has some good info on lights.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

I bought a three pack of 40 watt led bulbs at Costco a few months back, I think the price was around 15.95

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

I guess we're still in the early phase of this technology: before the point at which, while still expensive, it will begin to be a large savings over even compact fluorescent (CFL) bulbs.

Does anyone have anything to share about their experiences with LEDs so far?
How does the light look?

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

The color temprature is a big factor. People love and got used to the color temprature of incandescant light. When they see very blue white it freaks them out. Fortunately there are manufacturers that are making LEDs that are warmer with a tinge of orange.

Check this place out:

http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=leds.5mm

You'll notice there is only one white LED out of that whole bunch that sorta comes close to incandescant light. And at that it's kind of jaundiced looking.

I'm sure there are companies working on getting closer, but right now you might have to put up with some pretty sterile white light if you go with LEDs.

That and since they are diodes, the rise and fall time of the on off state is really fast, some folks can detect the pulsing when driven with 60hz AC.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

AMFORPM, I agree with your statements about electricity. I am currently building this system http://www.instructables.com/id/SPRE...ble_Electron_/ with a 20W panel. I am going to use a Deka solar battery instead of the generic rechargeable battery stated in the materials list. This should help with some of my lighting solutions. If it works, I am going to build one for the laptop. For me, it's going to require too much $$ for solar/wind to power the bigger appliances such as washing machine. I try to run them during the off-hours when electricity is cheaper.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

All -

I'm in the yacht building industry - think

Really big long white pointy things for

The obscenely rich - and we have been

Paying very close attention to LED's for

A number of years.

The technology and price are not there yet.

Nobody has been able, on the LED side, to replicate

Incandescent or fluorescent white light.

I'm giving it another five years on the design/cost

Spiral until someone hits the home run.

Until then, fluorescent has my nod.

With the exception of flashlights and headlamps,

Which are both fantastic right now.


scyth

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

PWN3D!

(I'm sorry)

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

They have them available now - I had a sales guy in showing me them last week. Color tuneable, they can be adjusted to suit your choice of lighting style. Expensive at the minute, but wait a year and they will be the "new" CFL alternative!

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

LED's you can buy for $8 a hundred. for those who have the inclination,
you can build your own LED bulbs for a lot less than they're selling for.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

I am sorry to report the bulb that was claimed as putting out the light of a 60 watt incandescent actually seems more like 25 to me.

The smaller and less expensive ones have been doing great for us, however, in their low traffic and often left on by mistake locations. The headlamp remains #1 for incredibly useful item.

The bluish light we also don't like, but where we have them they don't bother us.

I consider lighting one of our lesser power consumers, but worth reducing all the same.

Tata Motors of India is building the air car, so my wait for my preferred solution may not be as long as it might have been. The motor includes the compressor, and since India still has off grid areas and plenty of sun, I expect Tata will market the home power station version as well.

The things our sick banksters keep us from building first hacks me off!

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

Since LED are "diodes", how sensitive would they be to EMP and other massive surges?

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

I like these feit electric daylight bulbs (not eco) from walgreens. I got 4 of them for $10 a year ago, plus a couple of red party lights that are made the same way. I use only the red lights at night in the rooms! These go in the rooms that I'm in the most, and the regular ones in the rest of the house.

The daylight bulbs came in a four pack of either 15/60, 18/75, or 22/100 watts. I got the 75 watt type that use 18 watts and they are plenty bright enough, though the 15/60 would be fine for me. I prefer these to any other bulb that I've gotten. I think the red party bulbs are 15/60, and they were more expensive. A friend of mine had been complaining about how hot it was there (in the 90's) and especially near the lights. I told her to get these daylight bulbs, which she did, and was very happy about how much cooler than are than the regular ones!

<img src="http://img.walgreens.com/dbimagecache/433570.jpg">

http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...id=prod4158504

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

I wouldn't be cooling my home with excess air from a compressed air system - engines are lubricated by oil of some type regardless of fuel, and that will be in the air you are breathing.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

ok.

here's the report....i purchased a 13W LED bulb that is supposed to be equivalent of a 100 watt incandescent bulb.

i have this tall cheap lamp from IKEA.....like the kind found in most dorm rooms....i had a 100 watt incandescent bulb in it and i put in this new LED bulb instead....the brightness was probably similar and maybe slightly less, the coloring was definitely different....i would say less yellow and a bit crisper/truer. what i didnt like was the directionality of the light....the incandescent seemed to light up the whole room when in this 6-foot lamp. the LED only seemed to light a portion of the room, mostly upwards. i ended up taking out the bulb and keeping the 100 watt incandescent in that lamp.

in my bathroom i had a CFL bulb above the sink...i switched that bulb out with the LED and i prefer the LED bulb in that situation...color is definitely different...a more white color (and i chose the "warm" color LED).

i like the instant-on of the LED versus the CFL and i like the energy savings too over the life of the bulb....but i still like the incandescent bulb as a way to light up a room.

overall i am torn whether or not i'd get more of these...i was thinking of getting some of the smaller 7 watt LED bulbs but after seeing the light from the 13 watt bulb, i think i would stick with more 13 watt bulbs if i get more.


http://www.environmentalled.com/EvoL...-Bulb-p18.html

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

That must be a very old CFL for it to not be instant on, as most all are these days.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2423

"GlacialLight Factory Tour: How LED Lights are Made"

decent article.

Re: LED Light Bulbs
 

i just ordered a 3 watt LED bulb for the inside of my fridge since that incandescent bulb just blew out....hope it works nicely.